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The "EH" Team
Canada
72 Posts |
 Posted - 06/20/2012 : 20:29:00
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thats how you put it in the box
now I can copy it
lolololololol
jack daniels tastes yummy
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The "EH" Team
Canada
72 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2012 : 20:30:28
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just kidding copying is weak
anyone who does should be ashamed, all you muffin pan chicken guys who saw myron do it! |
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JD McGee
USA
1449 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2012 : 20:33:50
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quote:
Originally posted by swamprb
WOW!! Get over yourselves!
The 3 Elements of Evaluation for Judging criteria place less weighting on appearance scores and more on Taste and Tenderness/Texture.
So...guys like me that banked on Appearance scores in the past, now have to work even harder to cook outstanding BBQ- maybe just something you all should consider??
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I want to point out that the photographers hired by the Cloverdale Rodeo organizers were respectful of our cook space and asked permission to take pics when they felt we were doing something that looked interesting to them. Yes, I saw a couple of my boxes in the Judging tent, but big deal-my face wasn't in them, so who will know?
Read the fine print, agree to the terms-
or stay home.
"where's the pics?"
Now lets discuss SAUSAGE!
I'll get over myself Mr. 50 lines of I love me signature...when the PNWBA respects my privacy... |
Wine Country "Q" Competition BBQ
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TomW
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2012 : 20:56:53
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Okay, I have been reading this through the day. First, I have not seen “judges” taking pictures of turn-in boxes. The pictures posted appear to be taken and posted by one of the sponsors. I agree that there should not be photographers in the Judging area taking close up pictures of the boxes. If someone wants to see and photo one of my boxes, I will probably say yes. But it is my choice at that point. If I post a turn-in box on my website, that is also my choice. I do not expect the event to photo every box and post them for the entire world to see them. That is stepping over the line. They have damn near catalogued all the pork boxes at the event.
As for new teams, I tell them all to take the Judging Class and actually judge at least 2 or 3 events every year to see what over teams are turning in, not just from an appearance standpoint. That is how they learn, but they only take home a mental image, not one that they can print off and duplicate!
Yes, I understand that I signed the event agreement letting them use the photos that they take. However, there should be limits or an understanding about what is appropriate and what is taboo.
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Tom W.
Dances With Smoke BBQ
www.danceswithsmoke.com
Vice President - PNWBA |
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gary hedger
Netherlands
152 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2012 : 08:32:30
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Deena I did not intend to put down the PNWBA in any way. however total PNWBA prize money for 2012 is approximately $156,500.00!
KCBS prize money for the first week of June is $176,240.00!
So don't blow smoke up my ass and tell me I'm on fire!!
Now to the root of the problem rules are set so everyone has guidelines to follow, however by posting pics of all pork turn in boxes the association dropped the ball. It was wrong! Just admit it and lets move on!
Apologize to the Teams offended and promise to adhere to ALL rules ALL the time! Nuff said! |
Smoke it if ya got it BBQ Team
CBJ 200806
http://smokeitifyagotitbbq.com/
https://www.facebook.com/smokeitifyagotitbbq
Alias The Threadkiller! |
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michael eckert
USA
175 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2012 : 09:39:38
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| Gary, not trying to get in the middle of this, but a more accurate comparison would be dividing those numbers by the number of events so you have an average per event. |
"2012 Rookie Team of the Year"
"Tombstone BBQ"
http://tombstonebbq.com
"Centralia Shop'n Kart"
72" custom built reverse flow trailered pit, 18" WSM, Kenmore Elite gasser, SM 25# smoker, ECB.
PNWBA Board Member
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Bush Cook
Australia
189 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2012 : 10:11:19
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Did you know there is video footage at a KCBS sanctioned event where the winning box is clearly turned in after the turn-in window is closed? Issues can arise at any competition or sanctioning body event.
There are always hiccups along the road of life whether they are big or small.
Please continue to provide feedback on the forum and give guidance to the board to manage this issue. But good decisions are not ones that are made quickly, or from one perspective. Let’s give the board time to review all the angles and factors.
In the mean time let’s keep the comments constructive and non-personal.
With thanks,
Saffron
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Saffron
Head Cook - Bush Kitchen
Follow me on Facebook! www.facebook.com/BushCooking |
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gary hedger
Netherlands
152 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2012 : 10:33:18
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quote:
Originally posted by michael eckert
Gary, not trying to get in the middle of this, but a more accurate comparison would be dividing those numbers by the number of events so you have an average per event.
Great point!
PNWBA average for the season is- 6804.3
KCBS average for the first week in June is- 9791.1
Difference of - 2986.8
Keep in mind this is just the first week in June that I've drawn comparison to PNWBA!
Also keep in mind that KCBS richest events come later in the year!
I am NOT trying to belittle PNWBA in any way at all!
In order to improve our association these comparisons must be made after all our goal should be to become as good or better than KCBS! Aim high I say!
KCBS has a head start on us but WE can make improvements can we not!
Funny how this discussion has turned from the point at hand Pictures should not be allowed in judging tents OR before the food enters the judging tent. If boxes are opened prior to going to the table OUR food is being cooled off before judges can taste it this is not what the cooks had in mind when spending a lot of time on the turn in boxes.  |
Smoke it if ya got it BBQ Team
CBJ 200806
http://smokeitifyagotitbbq.com/
https://www.facebook.com/smokeitifyagotitbbq
Alias The Threadkiller! |
Edited by - gary hedger on 06/21/2012 10:34:50 |
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Angie
Canada
352 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2012 : 11:26:45
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To be incredibly clear - this was OUR contest.
1. the photos were taken by a professional photographer hired by the organizers to document the event. Those same organizers put up more than $10,000 in cash & provided all of the infrastructure for a brand new, first year event. The photographer does not know a turn in box from your elbow – to him, it was part of the competition he was hired to capture – he is not a BBQ’er.
2. None of the photos were taken by a judge, a table captain, head judge or representative of the PNWBA.
3. Many of the photos in question were taken from OUTSIDE of the judging area, as you can see in the photos - there were literally less than 4 feet from the judges & the general public.
4. None of the boxes were opened, staged or otherwise set up for the benefit of the photographer. The photos were taken during the normal course of judging and as you can see from the expressions on the table captain & judges faces - the photographer was not impeding the process in anyway. The photographer was unobtrusive & not given viewing access to ANYTHING the general public did not have.
5. The sponsors posted these pictures to SHOW OFF how amazing the turns ins & food were and how happy they were to be part of such a great event. Not to infringe on your human rights as cooks.
6. Not one of those boxes can be identified by another human being other than the person that turned it in. There are no numbers, bar codes or other "identifying" markers showing. The double blind judging system has in NO WAY been compromised.
7. When the photos were posted a team, had one they didn’t want up there – they asked us to remove it. We did – instantly, no questions asked. Every single team there knows who I am and how to reach me, they would have been afforded the exact same consideration.
I am a cook, an organizer, a judge, a head judge, a board member & most importantly A VOLUNTEER.
Perhaps less misinformation, fewer accusations and some accurate information can bring this back to a constructive conversation.
If you have questions about what went down, ask ME – I was there.
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Angie Quaale
Event Organizer -
* BBQ on the By Pass
* Big Red Barn Burner
* Cloverdale Cowboy Cook-off
* The North Surrey Auto Mall CAR-B-QUE
PNWBA Head Judge
PNWBA Board Member |
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jonesyjm
USA
289 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2012 : 13:05:20
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Well I'm with you fellas! (stollen from O'Brother Where Art Thou)
I'm going to stay out of this dog fight, Lord knows I've been in my fair share, but it sure has been rather interesting to read everyones perspective on the topic. Good Luck to everyone cooking this weekend:) |
James Jones
Smokey's Bar-B-Que
Semi Pro BBQ Pitmaster
"A Broken Man Seeking the Lords Face will find Salvation"
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/#!/SmokeysQue
Cell: 206-786-0082
Email: james@smokeysbarbque.com |
Edited by - jonesyjm on 06/21/2012 13:06:07 |
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upnsmokin
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2012 : 14:25:58
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WOW!! i must have been in the dark about something here. I thought this was a in general question? had no idea everyone was having a problem with a particular event.
I was also at the event that Angie refers to and the photogragher was real respectful to us. My boxes must not have been nice enough for them to waist there time taking pics.
Can someone enlighten me as to where these pics were posted?????? |
UPNSMOKIN
Custom Smoked Meats
Brett Schreyer
Smokin on a modified Diamond Plate Fat 50, 4-22"WSM's,3-Treager 075, Caja China model 2 |
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Rustys BBQ
Canada
168 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2012 : 15:39:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Angie
To be incredibly clear - this was OUR contest.
1. the photos were taken by a professional photographer hired by the organizers to document the event. Those same organizers put up more than $10,000 in cash & provided all of the infrastructure for a brand new, first year event. The photographer does not know a turn in box from your elbow – to him, it was part of the competition he was hired to capture – he is not a BBQ’er.
2. None of the photos were taken by a judge, a table captain, head judge or representative of the PNWBA.
3. Many of the photos in question were taken from OUTSIDE of the judging area, as you can see in the photos - there were literally less than 4 feet from the judges & the general public.
4. None of the boxes were opened, staged or otherwise set up for the benefit of the photographer. The photos were taken during the normal course of judging and as you can see from the expressions on the table captain & judges faces - the photographer was not impeding the process in anyway. The photographer was unobtrusive & not given viewing access to ANYTHING the general public did not have.
5. The sponsors posted these pictures to SHOW OFF how amazing the turns ins & food were and how happy they were to be part of such a great event. Not to infringe on your human rights as cooks.
6. Not one of those boxes can be identified by another human being other than the person that turned it in. There are no numbers, bar codes or other "identifying" markers showing. The double blind judging system has in NO WAY been compromised.
7. When the photos were posted a team, had one they didn’t want up there – they asked us to remove it. We did – instantly, no questions asked. Every single team there knows who I am and how to reach me, they would have been afforded the exact same consideration.
I am a cook, an organizer, a judge, a head judge, a board member & most importantly A VOLUNTEER.
Perhaps less misinformation, fewer accusations and some accurate information can bring this back to a constructive conversation.
If you have questions about what went down, ask ME – I was there.
If I agree with you can I get some more of that almond butter toffee stuff you sell at your till at well seasoned? I need another fix. |
Black Superior SS-2
Black Superior SS-3(on order)
Onyx Oven w/ blue DigiQ
Primo XL oval
WSM 18"
one touch silver kettle 22.5"
yellow therma pen
http://WWW.THEBBQSHOP.COM |
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Rustys BBQ
Canada
168 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2012 : 15:40:21
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| Seriously |
Black Superior SS-2
Black Superior SS-3(on order)
Onyx Oven w/ blue DigiQ
Primo XL oval
WSM 18"
one touch silver kettle 22.5"
yellow therma pen
http://WWW.THEBBQSHOP.COM |
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TomW
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2012 : 16:13:13
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| Okay, I think this horse is now dead. I beleive the Board has all read the comments and understands our, in many cases, strong opinions on it. |
Tom W.
Dances With Smoke BBQ
www.danceswithsmoke.com
Vice President - PNWBA |
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root
36 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2012 : 18:22:43
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Thanks for showing these great box pics ...Ill do so much better now that I know the green stuff goes UNDERNEATH the MEAT. Now I just need to learn to tell time(especially 1:05) and I can turn Pro.
Doug
Ice Harbor Brewing |
Edited by - root on 06/22/2012 10:30:36 |
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JD McGee
USA
1449 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2012 : 09:12:47
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quote:
Originally posted by TomW
Okay, I think this horse is now dead. I beleive the Board has all read the comments and understands our, in many cases, strong opinions on it.
Well...not quite dead yet. There has not been an "official" ruling on the matter posted for the general membership. Can any of the BOD members enlighten us?
Thanks!
JD |
Wine Country "Q" Competition BBQ
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MADDOG
Ireland
792 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2012 : 10:53:18
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Root, you kill me!
Hey, Clancy! What time is it? |
Pat "Maddog" Maddock
PNWBA Secretary 2013-14
CBJ#200412 KCBS#60627
Webers, Traegers and a magic, translucent Thermapen
MADDOG'S BBQ
Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It will frustrate you, annoy the pig and delay the damned BBQ! |
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Razoo BBQ
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2012 : 07:32:16
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quote:
Originally posted by MADDOG
Root, you kill me!
Hey, Clancy! What time is it?
It's Howdy Doody Time Pat |
Razoo BBQ |
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JD McGee
USA
1449 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2012 : 09:01:33
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quote:
Originally posted by JD McGee
quote:
Originally posted by TomW
Okay, I think this horse is now dead. I beleive the Board has all read the comments and understands our, in many cases, strong opinions on it.
Well...not quite dead yet. There has not been an "official" ruling on the matter posted for the general membership. Can any of the BOD members enlighten us?
Thanks!
JD
It's been over a month...has there been any decision by the BOD on this matter? |
Wine Country "Q" Competition BBQ
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JD McGee
USA
1449 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2012 : 17:33:12
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From the PNWBA BOD...
An event's Head Judge is charged with control of the judging area, defined as the building, tent(s) or cordoned-off area where contest entries are turned in and the table area where the judging process takes place. It is the duty of the Head Judge to enforce PNWBA judging rules, which stipulate that no visitors are allowed in the judging area once the judges are seated.
In regards to photographers, pictures may be taken within the judging area before the judging process begins. After that point, all visitors - including photographers - must vacate or move to the peripheral area surrounding the defined judging area.
Photography inside the judges table area is limited to the Head judges who, at their discretion, may take pictures of disqualified turn-in boxes for purposes of documentation and education. Such pictures may be shared confidentially within the Head Judges group, to facilitate discussion and ensure consistency of Head Judging at all events.
If an event sponsor or organizer wishes to take pictures of the judging process, he or she will first need to consult with the head judging team. Since no two judging venues have the same set-up, the head judge and photographer must agree in advance about the parameters for taking photographs during judging to minimize the impacts. The head judge will request that the photographer frame shots that are more "environmental" in nature, i.e., focusing on wider shots of the process in action, and that their photos do not include close-ups of a judge's face while eating or the interior of individual turn-in boxes for the four main meats.
At no time will a photographer be allowed to intrude upon the judges table area where his/her presence could in any way be disruptive or distracting to the process by up-close interference with the seated judges, the table captains, any other contest staff or the Head Judge in the performance of their duties in the workspace and walkways surrounding the judges tables, the meat staging and cleanup tables, and the turn-in area egress.
Photographers in the turn-in area must not block access or interfere in any way with the contest staff at the turn-in table or the teams as they present their entries. For extra category turn-ins (which lend themselves to pictures since they are eye-catching in nature), the Head Judge will work with the photographer and event organizer and/or sponsor to determine an appropriate course of action that ensures the anonymity of the cooks and maintains the double-blind judging safeguards.
Even with these procedures in place and enforced, the PNWBA recognizes the possibility of a turn-in box being identifiable to its creator in a photo posted by a sponsor, event organizer, or by a member of the general public. In that case, it is the responsibility of the head cook to contact the poster of the photo and ask that it be removed.
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Wine Country "Q" Competition BBQ
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JD McGee
USA
1449 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2012 : 17:35:29
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Thank you BOD for a fair solution to ensure the privacy of our teams...
JD |
Wine Country "Q" Competition BBQ
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Read the fine print...
